Legislature(1999 - 2000)
04/10/2000 01:50 PM Senate HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE
April 10, 2000
1:50 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Mike Miller, Chairman
Senator Pete Kelly, Vice-Chairman
Senator Gary Wilken
Senator Drue Pearce
Senator Kim Elton
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 191(FIN)
"An Act relating to charter schools."
-MOVED SCS CSHB 191(HES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS:
University of Alaska Regent - Josh Horst
Alaska Mental Health Board Members - Tom Hawkins, Susan Labelle,
Phil Younker and Caren Robinson
Alaska State Board of Education Members - Ernie Hall, Paula
Paulowski, and Sally Rue
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
HB 191 - See HESS minutes dated 3/27/00 and 4/05/00.
Confirmation Hearings - No previous Senate action.
WITNESS REGISTER
Representative Fred Dyson
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 191
Josh Horst
No address provided
Juneau, AK 99801
Tom Hawkins
1820 E. 24th
Anchorage, AK 99508
Susan LaBelle
4330 Shelikof St.
Anchorage, AK 99507
Phil Younker
121 Spruce
Fairbanks, AK 99709
Caren Robinson
PO Box 33702
Juneau, AK 99833
Ernie Hall
4770 W 84th Ave
Anchorage, AK
Paula Paulowski
3300 Balchen Drive
Anchorage, AK 99507
Sally Rue
7083 Hendrickson Road
Juneau, AK 99801
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 00-16, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN MILLER called the Senate Health, Education and Social
Services (HESS) Committee to order at 1:50 p.m. Present were
Senators Wilken, Pearce, Elton, and Chairman Miller. The first
order of business to come before the committee was HB 191.
HB 191-CHARTER SCHOOLS
SENATOR WILKEN moved to adopt Version X of HB 191 as the working
draft of the committee.
CHAIRMAN MILLER objected for the purpose of discussion.
SENATOR WILKEN explained the changes made in Version X. On page
2, lines 11 and 12, of the previous version (Version W) the
words, "including the itemized cost of administrative and other
services to be provided" were deleted. Also, on lines 27 through
31, the following provision was deleted:
a clause providing that the charter school's budget shall be
increased to reflect operating cost savings achieved by the
charter school; in this paragraph, "operating cost savings"
means the estimated value of educational or related services
provided by the district to all schools in the district that
are not provided to the charter school;
The effect of that removal is to minimize the discussion that
will occur on an annual basis among the local school boards and
the charter school advocates. He believes that discussion will
create a conflict. Requiring school districts to reflect
operating cost savings means they will have to set up new
accounting systems for a relatively few amount of students.
Senator Wilken said that provision will set up an ongoing
conflict between charter school advocates and the local school
boards because those terms are nebulous. Version X will
eliminate that conflict.
SENATOR WILKEN noted the third change occurred on page 3. Lines
8 through 13 of Version W was deleted. Local school boards were
mandated by law in 1995, and in the education rewrite in 1998, to
fund charter schools at a minimum level. The provision that was
removed tells the school board what it shall allocate to charter
schools - a decision that is a function of the elected community
officials and a function of the contract negotiated under
statute. It sets charter schools apart from other schools,
including alternative schools. Senator Wilken said he objects to
the legislature telling school districts how to fund charter
schools.
SENATOR WILKEN noted the charter school issue was set forth with
a set of agreements about how they would be operated in 1995.
The funding level was also agreed to. HB 191 attempts to change
those agreements. Version X contains some provisions that are
important to the sponsor: it increases the allowable number of
charter schools to 60; it removes the geographical restriction;
and it allows charter schools to operate in public buildings that
do not meet fire codes for public schools as long as the fire
marshal's approval is obtained.
SENATOR WILKEN repeated his motion to move Version X as the
working document of the committee.
SENATOR PETE KELLY asked Senator Wilken for a recap of what
Version X will do.
SENATOR WILKEN said two provisions bother him most and those
provisions revolve around the fact that school boards in Alaska
are made up of elected officials who are responsible for the
education of K-12 in their local areas. School board members are
the voice of the people. The charter school experiment was set
forth in statute in 1995 but, now, because some charter schools
feel they've been slighted, they are now coming to the
legislature to change the charter school system rather than going
to their local elected officials to make the changes. In this
time of tight funds, the legislature is being asked to spend more
money on a fewer amount of children. He believes that is a
decision to be made by the local elected officials. The funding
component requires school districts to give a certain amount of
money to charter schools. That amount should be decided by local
school boards. The second bothersome component is the nebulous
accounting method that is required as it will create tension
every year between charter school advocates and the people who
are responsible for all K-12 students in the district. That
tension will not be productive for the district.
SENATOR PETE KELLY asked if Version X eliminates, and does not
make adjustments to, the funding and accounting provisions in
Version W.
SENATOR WILKEN replied yes, but Version X contains everything
else.
Number 598
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON, sponsor of HB 191, noted the same issues
were discussed on the House side. He stated that when the
charter school legislation was passed in 1995, it was viewed by
some of the experts in this area as the weakest charter school
bill in the nation. Several legislators said, at the time, that
it would need to be revisited because charter schools would never
survive with that legislation. Some considered that legislation
to be a cruel hoax because it gave false hope that parent-
directed schools could make it. The charter school issue is at a
nexus: charter schools either need more assistance or they will
fold.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said nothing in Version W changes the fact
that school boards will remain in control. The process is not
one of negotiation; Version W only "opens up the books" so that
discussions can go forward. The charter school advocates are
coming to the local government with nothing to negotiate. They
are supplicants only. The issue of the local contribution has
been controversial. His reading of the 1995 law is that the
legislature intended that each charter school would get their
fair share of all of the allocations - federal, state and local
money. There is some evidence that some school districts do not
feel they need to give the charter schools any portion of the
local contribution over four mils. Version W makes clear that
charter school students should get treated like any other
students and that they receive the same allocation of the local
contribution over four mils.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON noted the section that deals with estimated
cost only says if the charter school saves the school district
money because the district does not have to provide it with the
same services, then the charter school will have a chance to
receive that money. For example, if the charter school does not
require snow plowing services and saves the district money, then
the charter school can get that money. The language on page 2,
lines 11 and 12, does not really require anything different than
what the law already says. It only asks for some itemization.
Some school districts claim that they do not have that
information but Commissioner Cross of the Department of Education
believes they do, and that if they do not, they should have it.
He repeated that Version W does not change local control.
SENATOR ELTON stated support for Version X because it liberalizes
some provisions, such as contract duration, lifts the
geographical component, and lifts the cap on the number of
schools. He, like Senator Wilken, is bothered by the provision
that tells local school districts how they must deal with charter
schools. What he finds particularly offensive is the provision
that allocates the specific local contribution. He agrees with
Senator Wilken that that provision sets a floor and a ceiling and
gives the local districts no latitude at all. He believes those
kinds of decisions are best made at the local level rather than
at the legislative level. That will put in law a special
provision for charter schools that is not available for public
schools.
CHAIRMAN MILLER noted that objection was maintained to the
adoption of Version X so a roll call vote was taken. The motion
to adopt Version X failed with Senators Pete Kelly, Pearce, and
Miller voting "nay," and Senators Wilken and Elton voting "yea."
CHAIRMAN MILLER stated that Version W was before the committee.
SENATOR ELTON moved to amend Version W by deleting Section 4 on
page 3 which reads as follows.
Sec. 4. AS 14.03.260 is amended by adding a new subsection to
read:
(e) In addition to the amount provided to an approved
charter school in the annual program budget under (a) of
this section, a charter school budget must include an
allocation equal to the amount determined by dividing the
amount of local revenues contributed under AS 14.17.410(c)
by the average daily membership of the district and
multiplying that number by the average daily membership of
the charter school.
The motion to delete Section 4 carried with Senators Elton,
Wilken, and Pete Kelly voting "yea," and Senators Pearce and
Miller voting "nay."
SENATOR PEARCE moved SCSHB 191(HES) from committee with
individual recommendations.
SENATOR WILKEN objected. The motion to move SCSHB 191(HES) out
of committee carried with Senators Elton and Wilken voting "nay,"
and Senators Pearce, Pete Kelly, and Miller voting "yea."
There being no further testimony on HB 191, CHAIRMAN MILLER
announced the committee would take up confirmation hearings. He
asked Mr. Josh Horst to give committee members a thumbnail sketch
of himself and to explain why he wants to serve on the Board of
Regents.
MR. JOSH HORST stated he is a student at the University of Alaska
Southeast (UAS). He moved to Juneau from California about three
years ago and decided to get involved in student government. He
served as the student government president at UAS last year and
found that job to be very rewarding. He enjoyed being in a
position where he could make changes and see tangible results of
the work he put in. He chose to run for the seat of student
regent so that he could continue that work on a statewide level.
SENATOR PETE KELLY asked Mr. Horst if he supports the University
lands bill [SB 7].
MR. HORST said, "That's a tough question. We're definitely
supportive of an opportunity to have long term financing for the
University, and in that regard, certainly so. However, the
nature of the bill itself - I'm not positive where I stand on
it."
SENATOR PETE KELLY asked Mr. Horst what his concern is with the
nature of the bill.
MR. HORST replied that he wonders how the University is going to
be seen as the steward of that land from the students'
perspective. Students are typically a little more on the
environmental side, so he wonders how that will affect his
position between the students and the Board of Regents. He
stated that he thinks the idea is a good one.
SENATOR PETE KELLY asked Mr. Horst if he supports the bill [SB
7].
MR. HORST replied, "With the understanding that I have so far of
the lands bill, yes, I am supportive of it, however I don't claim
to be an expert on that bill. I have not read the whole bill
myself."
SENATOR PETE KELLY remarked that one of the problems that the
University has had over the years is that many of the students
have come to the Legislature on other than University-related
issues and spoke with an anti-development voice. He noted that
Mr. Horst would be in a position of advocating for those
students. He asked Mr. Horst if he would be advocating against
development and for the voices of the students who are
environmentalists or whether he would advocate for more
development.
MR. HORST said he feels strongly that he is the spokesperson for
the Coalition of Student Leaders. The Coalition will be
representative of the beliefs of the students on each campus. He
will represent that decision to the Board.
SENATOR ELTON commented that he thought Mr. Horst did a good job.
He pointed out that one of the things that has impressed him
about Mr. Horst's service so far is that he must walk a fine line
when speaking to the lands bill and that most students who
visited Juneau and expressed opposition to the lands bill were
opposed because they believe the University needs additional
funding immediately. The students asked legislators to not use
the passage of the lands bill as an excuse for not providing
additional money right away.
Number 1574
SENATOR PETE KELLY commented that Senator Elton was referring to
different legislation. He noted he has been disappointed to see
University students testify against projects that might bring the
state more money when the Legislature is struggling to find ways
to fund programs. He stated it is also disturbing to him that
the University is producing students with a larger voice against
development.
SENATOR WILKEN agreed with Senator Kelly and remarked that just
last week he had three people from the University in his office
complaining about the lands bill. His impression was that the
three people opposed the bill but knew nothing about it. He
showed them on a map how much land 250,000 acres would represent
in relation to the entire state which surprised them.
SENATOR WILKEN asked Mr. Horst if he believes the University of
Alaska system will ever be defined by discipline, by campus.
MR. HORST stated he hopes so and that some initiatives will be
presented to the University that propose a better fit. Obviously
an Arctic research program is more appropriate in Fairbanks. He
imagines as the University continues to graduate students from
those fields and they pursue careers and become donors to the
University, those campuses will become better known for their
strongest attributes. He does not suspect that the University
of Alaska Southeast will become the marine fisheries institute of
the University system anytime in the near future.
SENATOR WILKEN asked if Mr. Horst thought that is something to
work for over a generation's time.
MR. HORST thought that time frame was realistic.
SENATOR WILKEN noted that he has had the pleasure of working with
Mr. Horst and has found him to be hardworking and to have a good
sense of where the University has been and where it wants to go.
CHAIRMAN MILLER thanked Mr. Horst and said the committee would
forward his name to the full Legislature for consideration. He
asked Mr. Hawkins to brief the committee on his background and
ideas for the Alaska Mental Health Trust Authority (AMHTA).
Number 1774
MR. TOM HAWKINS informed committee members that he served four
years on the AMHTA Board and co-chaired its Asset Management
Committee. He enjoyed his service on the board and believes he
did a good job with the asset base of the AMHTA. He would
appreciate the opportunity to continue doing that work.
There were no questions of Mr. Hawkins, so CHAIRMAN MILLER asked
Susan LaBelle to testify.
MS. SUSAN LABELLE stated that she has been serving on the AMHTA
for 2½ years. That experience has given her the opportunity to
learn about the system and the enormous tasks before the AMHTA.
She was born and raised in the village of Port Graham so she
brings a rural perspective to the board. Her background is in
the field of social work which she has done for over 20 years.
She feels fortunate that the AMHTA is focusing on issues of the
elderly, such as assisted living homes.
There being no questions of Ms. LaBelle, CHAIRMAN MILLER asked
Phil Younker to testify.
MR. PHIL YOUNKER said he has also served on the AMHTA for 2½
years. As the co-chair of the Finance Committee with Mr.
Hawkins, he is proud of the work the AMHTA and staff has done in
developing something from nothing. Proper management of assets
and a spending policy that initiates long term protection of
AMHTA's asset base, both on the cash side and the natural
resource side, has worked to develop change in the system. Staff
and committee efforts have been a catalyst for changes to the
Alaska Psychiatric Institute in pushing for a new facility. The
AMHTA has a lot of work ahead of it but it is assisting both the
legislature and the Governor so that the AMHTA moves in the right
direction. He looks forward to serving another five years.
MS. CAREN ROBINSON informed committee members that she has served
on the AMHTA for three years. She was elected chair in June
which has been quite an honor. Some of the AMHTA's top
priorities for the next few years are the Alaska Psychiatric
Institute (API). The AMHTA is working hard to get the API issue
settled by getting into a smaller building and getting community
based services into the Anchorage area. The AMHTA is also
spending a tremendous amount of time looking at ways to continue
services it believes are important, such as the assisted living
program. It is working to partner with both the legislature and
the Governor to implement some important changes. The AMHTA
hopes to implement a two-year budget cycle so that it can do
longer range planning and do larger projects that can be funded
for a longer period of time. That will enable the AMHTA to get a
handle on whether projects are actually doing what they were
intended to do.
SENATOR ELTON noted that he served on the Finance Subcommittee
for the HESS budget and he thinks the AMHTA has done a tremendous
job in stepping forward to help fill holes in services in the
State. He appreciates the way the AMHTA worked with the
subcommittee.
SENATOR PETE KELLY agreed.
There being no further comments, CHAIRMAN MILLER announced that
all names on the list for reappointment to the AMHTA would be
forwarded to the full legislature for consideration. He stated
the committee would hear from the appointees to the Alaska State
Board of Education.
Number 2079
MR. ERNIE HALL informed committee members that he is a new
appointee to the Board of Education. All three of his children
attended the Anchorage public school system and he currently has
four grandchildren in that system. The future of Alaska depends
on the education that we give to its children. It is critical
that Alaska provide the highest quality education it is able to.
SENATOR WILKEN congratulated Mr. Hall on his appointment.
MS. PAULA PAULOWSKI told committee members she is seeking
reappointment. She was asked to fill a vacancy on the Board of
Education when Abbie Hensley left. Much to her surprise, she
found that her background as a military dependent gave her the
opportunity to drop in and out of other education systems which
will be helpful to Alaska. When living on the East Coast, she
was involved, at the local high school, with the group from Brown
University on the Coalition of Essential Schools. That group was
doing the same thing a decade ago that Alaska is doing now,
regarding teachers, the business community, and parents working
as partners for standards, exit exams and benchmarks. That
experience will help her to do a better job this time around.
In July, the Board of Education will focus on early childhood
development issues, which she is passionate about and looks
forward to.
There being no questions, CHAIRMAN MILLER asked Sally Rue to
testify.
MS. SALLY RUE stated she has two children who have attended both
the Anchorage and Juneau public school systems. She has been
actively involved in their education since preschool. She served
on the Juneau school board for six years. She finds she
continues to have a passion for education and would be honored to
serve on the Alaska State Board of Education. Three issues are
important to her. First, the commitment to establishing higher
standards must be followed through, along with supplying each
student with the tools necessary to achieve those standards.
Second, the Board's new role in early childhood development is
extremely important. Third, reducing the drop-out rate in Alaska
and increasing the number of students who go on to some type of
postsecondary training is important.
SENATOR WILKEN asked Ms. Rue to comment on where Alaska is at on
the exit exam.
MS. RUE remarked that is where some of the "bumps in the road"
are going to be felt. The bar for the standards-based education
project need to be set high, which will create unhappiness when
students do not meet it immediately. If students meet it right
away, however, the bar is set too low. More important are the
third, sixth, and eighth grade benchmarks because those
benchmarks will reveal whether students are on track to graduate.
She is concerned that the state is putting high stakes on a test
when some students only have a few years to prepare. She thinks
it is important to ensure that all students are provided with an
equal opportunity which will be a tough issue.
SENATOR PETE KELLY asked if the bar will ever be set high enough.
He wonders if communities have the will to require of the
students what they are capable of. He has had the pleasure of
meeting some exchange students and the one thing he found the
most disturbing is that three of four of those students thought
Alaska's education system was a joke.
TAPE 00-16, SIDE B
SENATOR KELLY said the exchange students are juniors and were
taking mathematics classes they had taken in the seventh and
eighth grades elsewhere. He said he thinks the exit exam is the
only way Alaska can get on track for the standards that students
will need. He again asked whether Alaskan communities will have
the will to set the bar high enough.
MS. RUE said that she certainly hopes they will, and that one of
the ways to do that is to set clear standards so that students
understand what they are expected to know and do. That is a long
process and she is concerned that Boards and school district
administrations change so the State Board has to have the
fortitude to stay on track until results can be seen. She saw in
her daughter's education in Juneau a very clear demonstration of
how standards work.
CHAIRMAN MILLER thanked participants and announced that all names
of appointees would be forwarded to the full legislature for a
confirmation vote. He announced the committee would meet on
Wednesday to deal with the last of the priority pieces of
legislation. He then adjourned the meeting.
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